Curse

Riotgear · Jun 14, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

With this change, iWay Paragons will only have 130 armor instead of 150.

How'd you get 130?

80 (base) + 16 (shield) + 24 (buff) = 120

Patccmoi · Jun 14, 2007, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

How'd you get 130?

80 (base) + 16 (shield) + 24 (buff) = 120

You forgot the perma +10AL vs everything insigna.

Apok Omen · Jun 14, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Sometimes I think Anet has a computer that randomly selects skills to buff/nerf and how...

-Loki- · Jun 14, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apok Omen

Sometimes I think Anet has a computer that randomly selects skills to buff/nerf and how...

Izzys keyboard.

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

They do stack, but you don't take advantage of the JI that you'd normally get out of that character as well. When you factor in the +10 vs elemental shield swap they a good player will usually pull out when they see a conjure Warrior, it's not worth keeping the Conjure once you have a smiter in the build.

Conjure says 'if you're wielding a X weapon. Not 'if you deal X damage'. I haven't tested it, but according to this wording, shouldn't conjure still work if you have JI on you, even though you deal holy damage?

Zui · Jun 14, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Thomas, I'm pretty sure that Conjures don't work if you have JI on you. Go test it out though. I'd go do it to be able to say it 100% certainty, but I won't log into Guild Wars until ANET gets their act together... (Like that's going to happen.)

Oni Firestarter · Jun 14, 2007, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Let me make sure that I have this right:

When Shadow Prison, Dismember, Critical Chop was on every single build seen in obs, Anet "stepped" in and put in the "steep" 5 en extra cost to Shadow Prison.

In typical anet style, they then go ahead and give an adrenaline based 1/2 activation skill that does the exact RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin same damage as crit chop, but with an easier interupt condition on spike.

GG anet.

Its getting to the point of being pathetic - Anets problem solving skills are the absolute pits. Its pretty much summed up with "we know SF is fricken broken - but we dont know wtf to do" I think the official line was something like "fire is designed to kill shit. Searing flames kills shit. Seems like its functioning exactly as we intended it"

The nicer blurb was the bit about them "watching " hexes (is that supposed to be some sort of comfort?) Dont get bitchy that faintheartedness is on a fricken 1 second cast time, does some stupid 200 damage AND effectively shuts down a char for 30 seconds because ANET IS WATCHING!!! If anything, that pisses me off more. I can literally see these people watching these lame ass GvGs and laughing their asses off at some dude killing himself on Price of Failure or some nonsense.

Its just sad to see these "skill balances" where everyone looks at them and wonder wtf these people do all day at the office. Like seriously.... Lets just take a quick look at half these balances:

Take a bunch of skills people make fun of and randomly change the numbers. Dont worry about figuring out why certain skills aren't used, just keep changing the numbers. People will use them eventually right???? right??! And seriously, who's idea was it to change Ride the Lightning? Can anyone think of a legitimate use of this skill that isn't going to lead to gimmick? Either the buff isn't enough and people continue to not use it. Or its enough and people run some lame off spike. Why on earth would you pick Ride the Lightning as a skill to buff? What did you hope to do? Have ele warriors in GvGs running around with conjure lightning and using the awesome Ride The Lightning, Cyclone Axe, Critical Chop, Furious Axe Combo (yay for estorage!! RAWR!!) Or was your goal to add shadow stepping spikes back into the game after you specifically tried to remove them from warriors with the shadow prison nerf.

More accurately, does Anet even know why they are changing skills now? It seems like "uhh....the PvP'ers keep screaming about some "skill balance" or something. I think its time to bring out the random number generator again"

None of these balances even make sense...

Im not going to get into the Expose one, because thats been done to death but:

Fast casting signets. What exactly was the point of this again? Oh, to make my elite hex removal even easier to remove now? Awesome.

Then we come to the Earth magic changes. What was the point again. Does Anet really not get it? Elementalists are wanted for two reasons: Their versatility (see air or water lines) or their "omfg look at the big numbers on searing flames and see everything die" fire line that anet doesn't know how to fix. So if you want to see earth eles, you either need to make the earth secondary effects not idiotic (you move slow but are immune to everything but lightning damage??! wtf?!) or make it so earthquake instantly kills everything on the radar.

The buff to Yeti Smash IMO was particularly genius. Anet hit the nail right on the head. The reason I wasn't using Yeti Smash was because it took a whopping 7 adrenaline. BUT DONT WORRY! Because now that it is 6, im SURE it'll be on my bar. For crying out loud, I can run a splinter weapon in my team build and get 5 attacks with AoE on top of my skills, or I can use friggin Yeti Smash.

Then we have the Shield guardian buff. Now, maybe im just retarded, but this seems to be one of the dumbest skills Ive seen and their buff was to make it have 1/4 second. It gives you a 75% chance to block, but once it blocks it ends and heals for 67 health. Again, maybe im retarded, but isn't this a fricken 10 energy RoF that could theoretically never trigger??! Following this logic, anet could make a skill that costs 25 energy and heals for 10 health. BUT DONT WORRY! ITS ON A 1/4 SECOND CAST!! (Glimmer anyone!?)

Then we have the awesome Empathic Removal buff. This one is awesome because clearly Anet understands why this skill blows. I mean, you wouldn't ever want to put this on a split character would you??? Its not like the whole "you cant use it on a solo split" completely makes this skill useless right???

Then we have these genius rit nerfs/buffs, because after all, secondary classes were using these weapons to great effect. So in order to balance that, we made it so that rit primaries use these weapons ever better :S. Because that makes sense. I dont really understand the random buff to EVERY SINGLE WEAPON in the game because they were annoyed people USED SKILLS FROM THEIR SECONDARY PROFESSION THAT THEY SPECCED INTO! They have a problem letting secondary eles use weapon skills from a line they specced into, but dont see a problem with ele energy management used on every damn class in the game for 0 spec.

Ultimately, this update means about as much to me as if they typed jibberish. Some of the rationale sounds ok when they first say it, but then you think about it.. and you realize IT MAKES NO FRIGGIN SENSE.

To add "versatility" to Warrior bars, you replace Crit Chop with Agonizing Chop?

To make secondaries use less rit weapons, you randomly buff all their durations with rit primaries? Ultimately, this one is the kicker for me. They always talk about "ramifications" of their balance changes and how we as players dont understand that. And to deal with E/Rts using weapon of warding (how many aren't using SoR now anyways) THEY GLOBALLY BUFF THE DURATION OF WEAPON SKILLS with meager investment.

I just find it incredibly sad that we waited two months, and the number of "good" changes is what.... 3??

Recall being unbuffed (does that count as a change?)
Crip shot to 10 en
Mes skills being able to interupt Defensive Anthem (that was the whole point of the complicated change wasn't it?)

So seriously.. what do the people at Anet do all day? Im dying to know. 4 legitimate changes in what? 4 months? Thats 1 change per month............ Is Anet hiring?

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oni Firestarter

Recall being unbuffed (does that count as a change?)
Crip shot to 10 en
Mes skills being able to interupt Defensive Anthem (that was the whole point of the complicated change wasn't it?)

You forgot expose has a 15 second recharge now

ideologue · Jun 14, 2007, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

Thomas, I'm pretty sure that Conjures don't work if you have JI on you. Go test it out though. I'd go do it to be able to say it 100% certainty, but I won't log into Guild Wars until ANET gets their act together... (Like that's going to happen.)

Yeah I tested it before, judge's insight indeed does not stack with conjure

moriz · Jun 14, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

this might sound a little far fetched, but given the poor and dodgy skill balances over the last few months, i think my little theory might just be correct. the only thing i would ask is for this post to be not deleted (and why should it be? i'm not going to flame anyone in particular).

instead of trying to keep their original top pvpers, anet actually want them to leave. why? because anet is not pleased by their attitude, and the rather obvious fact that those pvpers know more about the game than all the devs and the entire pve community combined. they determined that by trying to please these pvpers the effort will cut into their bottom line. and i don't really blame them: by attempting to properly balance high level pvp, there will be some serious complaints coming from the pve crowd. since much of their money is made from pve'ers, anet decided that their needs are greater.

instead of trying to actually fix the game so its enjoyable, they are making poor skill balancing decisions to drive away their oldest and more loyal players. after all, the best way to get rid of complaints is by getting rid of the source: the complainers. once people like ensign finally quit playing out of sheer frustration, anet will have what they wanted: a player base too dumb and oblivious to second guess them.

now, i know this sounds seriously out of whack and it really does sound like some crazy conspiracy theory, but this trend has been going on for a while now. the minds behind GW do not suddenly become idiots, or else GW wouldn't have ever made it out of the alpha stages. it's either they are doing this on purpose, or some higher ups are making them.

i would lastly want to point out to anyone still reading at this point that GW currently fulfills a very important niche in the mmorpg market: that of a mmorpg with potential for truely balanced pvp. and also, i would like the point out that GW's stranglehold of this niche won't last for very long. Fury will be releasing later this year. the minds behind GW will either maintain that stranglehold on this valuable market niche by sharpening up and actually do things properly, or they can watch as 7 years of hard work evaporate, and GW just become another mmorpg (and a very poor one at that).

Patccmoi · Jun 14, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

i would lastly want to point out to anyone still reading at this point that GW currently fulfills a very important niche in the mmorpg market: that of a mmorpg with potential for truely balanced pvp. and also, i would like the point out that GW's stranglehold of this niche won't last for very long. Fury will be releasing later this year. the minds behind GW will either maintain that stranglehold on this valuable market niche by sharpening up and actually do things properly, or they can watch as 7 years of hard work evaporate, and GW just become another mmorpg (and a very poor one at that).

It also fills another niche though, which is a no pay per month MMO. I know that for a lot of people that might not matter, but for young PvErs it does. When their parents are still buying them games for birthday or w/e, they're much more incline to buy a game once per 6 months than having to pay every month so their kid can play.

I think that this is simply what GW decided to go for. Isn't this what GW2 is all about? More MMORPGish, still no pay per month. That's what they seem to be promoting now, and high end PvP skill balance has no part of that. It's actually detrimental.

suiraCLAW · Jun 14, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

A lot of PvP'ers that leave the game sell their account. After all, which pve'er doesn't want an UAX account with all 3 chapters and a tiger emote?

In other words, if anet really wants to get rid of high end pvp, they're demolishing the pve economy while also discouraging people from buying the game legally.

<- waiting for an invite for fury's closed beta...

Nurse With Wound · Jun 14, 2007, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

You forgot expose has a 15 second recharge now

Razz Thom · Jun 14, 2007, 08:32 PM // 20:32

and while you are crying i came up with the perfect solution........................
every class, every character, every player in the game has access to the same 8 skills. only 8, no matter what. no diversity. no anger. monk, mesmer, necro, rit, sin, warrior, para, ranger, derv all get orison of healing, rez, healing signet, dual shot, enfeebling blood, conjure phantasm, GolE, and smite hex. then when they do skill buffs and nerfs you peoplr would still cry about them. and as for mmorpg that term alone doesn't apply to what most of you want. buy a ps3, get an online account for it, pressure sony into developing a chat room that leads off into an online version of street fighter and then you will have your dream setup. there will always be someone unhappy because the brainchild they came up with got beat by someone who took a shortcut to a "cheap" build. that is the nature of the beast. stop whining and figure out how to stop captain cheapo. there is always a way.

P.S. to the person who mentioned M:tg earlier.....i used to play that too. it was very popular for a while. then people started finding exploits for builds and others got tired of getting beat so they whined to r&d and they started errataing(nerfing) cards and then everyone started playing pokemon instead because they became the same game basically.

Thomas.knbk · Jun 14, 2007, 08:35 PM // 20:35

sounds like chess but worse

Lord Mendes · Jun 14, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Bad update, but what did you really expect? I don't usually flame Izzy, but he has been pretty baed for the past 8 months (since nightfall release).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

...

You think this is whining? Try riverside.
"OMG SR SUCKS! THANKS FOR KILLING THE GAME! OMG ARMOR BUFFS DONT STACK! OMG HARDMODE IS HARD!! ANET HATES US /slit wrists"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

...

Mesmers have always been awesome in PvP.

FoxBat · Jun 15, 2007, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz Thom

P.S. to the person who mentioned M:tg earlier.....i used to play that too. it was very popular for a while. then people started finding exploits for builds and others got tired of getting beat so they whined to r&d and they started errataing(nerfing) cards and then everyone started playing pokemon instead because they became the same game basically.

Whatever. There's been some lull periods, but it's extremely popular now, they've removed all power-level eratta (leading to the banning of Flash from legacy), and managed not to ban the horrible Jitte when every deck that wasn't running it was running Jitte hate. Of course the rest of your post confirms you generally don't know what you are talking about anyway.

The conspiracy theory is too far (because forum noise just isn't that important), but you guys need to face the fact that Anet doesn't want balanced (versatile high-skill templates) to be the only build that will win in tourneys. They wouldn't be designing classes like paragons and assassins otherwise. Ragequit is probably the best option if that's a problem.

Ensign · Jun 15, 2007, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

In terms of HA... this reduces the gimmick builds we have to face by about 2... no more icy veins or spiritway.

I haven't seen Icy Veins spikers in a while actually...it's all been Poop, Ritspike, SF, and Paragons. The 5 Paragon builds still exist out there but I think they're worse than the 4 Warrior / 4 Paragon builds in every way and are going extinct.

The nerf gets rid of Poop, but the rest are left unscathed...as you said, that leaves us with a wonderful metagame of Rit Spikers, Searing Flames, and Zergway to wade through in HA. Some variant of Poop will probably pop up, since only the healers took a hit and it's an obnoxious enough archtype that people will stick with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

But surely having to stay within radar range of the anchor makes the base ganking less viable? Even on druids isle the guild lord area is about 1.5-2 radars away... so anchoring recall on a flag stand ally will not allow the ganker the range to reach deep into the enemy base.

They never really had all that range. Even if the Recall was anchored off the radar, you'd only teleport one radar radius once you did drop it. Also if the anchor was off radar, the teleport became very unreliable as an escape mechanism, often slamming you into walls in the base as the pathing stopped working well enough to pull you out the right way. The ability to run out of radar range was useful because it let you get sloppier with your distances, but you virtually always had your anchor right there in any case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

The strength of recall now is the ability for the gankers to anchor on a escape artist... so in a team of 3...

That's been the problem with the skill for the last year. The last two changes to the skill have done absolutely nothing to address that problem.

It's funny, too, because once you recognize that as the problem, you know that the way you have to fight it is to catch the anchor ele or rit. Before the recalls were anchored on that guy, who was your target anyway, and one strip would pull them both, which was convenient if that was what you wanted to do. Now you have to disenchant the Assassins, using Mirror...which is nowhere near as good as Shattering the Ele.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorekeeper

Well in HA the only chants that needs to be interrupted (if necessity is the right word) are defensive anthem and perhaps song of concentration.

Well in HA you're running PD on that Mesmer in all likelihood, not PDrain/PLeak. And unless you're playing against a zergway team, your Mesmer is leaving the Paragons alone. There are too many other appealing targets that you're much more effective against in virtually every build to waste time camping a Paragon.

Peace,
-CxE

Thom Bangalter · Jun 15, 2007, 01:27 AM // 01:27

The 2 second DA is going to be pretty appealing to hit, if it continues to see use (which it most certainly will).

Riotgear · Jun 15, 2007, 01:33 AM // 01:33

What exactly is Poop?

(Note to all potential replies that describe feces: You are not funny)